[joevt]

I got a firmware update from Club-3d for the CAC-1085 to get HDR support in macOS.  #21 

 

[joevt]

The page you linked says Thunderbolt 4 does everything USB4 can do. It does not say that it does more than what USB4 can do.

The product description for the CAC-1571 at https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2522/usb4_type_c_gen3x2_bi_directional_cable_40gbps_8k60hz_100w_powerdelivery_m_m_0.8m_2.62ft/ says the following:

• Full-featured USB4™ Type-C Certified Cable (USB4™ Gen3x2)
• Bandwidth up to 40Gbps
• Power Delivery up to 100W
• E-mark IC
• Cable length 0.8 m / 2.6 ft
• Support more protocols, DisplayPort™ and PCI express
• Type-C cable ONLY
• Backwards compatible with USB3.2, USB2.0 and Thunderbolt™ 3
• USB-IF Certified

Which means it’s basically as good as a Thunderbolt 4 cable. I guess Club-3d saved a buck by not getting the Thunderbolt 4 certification? But they did get the USB-IF certification.

There are cases where USB4 can be less than Thunderbolt 4 but this cable is not one of those cases. You’ll have no problem with the cable, no matter what computer/device it’s connected between.

[joevt]

The dock contains an MST Hub that only has 2 lanes of DisplayPort input. This is because the USB-C dock uses two of the 4 super speed lines of the USB-C connection for USB 3.x.

The dock appears to have a DisplayPort 1.2 MST Hub (with only two lanes of HBR2, it can only support up to 4K30 10bpc or 1440p60 10bpc for a single display). You could try 1440p30 10bpc for two displays.

A Thunderbolt dock allows two 4-lane HBR2 connections – 4 times the DisplayPort bandwidth of this USB-C dock.

Now, if the dock were updated with a DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub, then it could use two lanes of HBR3 for 50% more bandwidth (enough for two 1440p60 8bpc displays). And if your GPU supports DSC @ 12 bpp then you could effectively double that so you could connect two 4K60 8bpc displays or two 1440p60 10bpc displays. DSC @ 8bpp could effectively triple the bandwidth but I don’t think I’ve seen that mode before. I don’t think Windows shows anywhere what DSC compression ratio it’s using.

I think 10bpc is required for HDR (at least in macOS). Windows may allow HDR with 8bpc?

Club-3d does sell three-port DisplayPort 1.4 MST hubs that don’t contain any USB outputs. That means they can support 4 lane HBR3 input. See the CSV-1550.
https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2486/usb_type_c_3.2_gen_1_multi_stream_transport_(mst)hub_displayport1.4_triple_monitor/

If you need other ports, the CSV-1568 appears to be a dock with DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub (2 lane HBR3 input).

The CSV-1566 uses two lanes of HBR2 for one display and DisplayLink for additional displays. Maybe you want to avoid DisplayLink if possible.

I think the CSV-1562 uses two lanes of HBR3 (I am guessing since the product page mentions DSC support, however the download says DisplayPort 1.2 which means HBR2) for one or more ports and DisplayLink for other ports (the documentation is inadequate). The documentation doesn’t say if it has MST Hub functionality (to convert two lanes of HBR3 to four lanes of HBR2 for 4K60 10bpc displays that don’t support HBR3). The documentation doesn’t say what ports use DisplayLink. Maybe DisplayLink is used for the DisplayPort 1.2 ports and MST is used for the HDMI ports?

 

[joevt]

1080 Ti is Pascal generation. It doesn’t support DSC so you’ll be limited to DisplayPort 1.4 non-DSC modes (4:4:4 or chroma sub sampling modes 4:2:2 or 4:2:0).

Without DSC, 4K120 is not possible with DisplayPort 1.4 unless you reduce the pixel clock from HDMI’s 1188MHz down to under 1080MHz for 4:4:4 8bpc (such as CVT-RB2’s 1076 MHz) or you use 4:2:2 10bpc (which may be necessary if HDR requires 10bpc).

4K120 4:2:0 8bpc can work with HDMI 2.0 signalling.

I think the TV has a method to show the input signal type.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-4k-120hz.2267035/post-30639700

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4CCcvtnjj8

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/jaqc6y/with_the_new_lg_oled_tvs_how_do_you_display/

TM = TMDS = HDMI 2.0

4L10 = 4 lanes of 10Gbps each = HDMI 2.1 (but not the highest speed 4L12)

 

[joevt]

The repeater can do HBR3 link rate (8.1 Gbps per lane)

1080p only requires RBR link rate (1.62 Gbps per lane).

It is extremely unlikely that the capability would be reduced by that amount. It would be nice if they specified what the reduction is between repeaters. I would guess something like zero to three percent, unless something weird happens and the link rate is reduced from HBR3 to HBR2 (33% reduction) or more.

Distance depends on the cables you use. The following says 10m max in-between repeaters.

https://www.club-3d.com/en/reviews/13/cac_1007_displayport_1.4_active_repeater_4k120hz_hbr3_f-f/

So that would mean 40m total for cascade of 3? }–|–|–|–{

 

[joevt]

DisplayPort 2.0 products won’t exist until next year?
https://www.club-3d.com/en/technology/8/displayport/

Well, there exist some cables in Amazon.com that claim to be for DisplayPort 2.0. I don’t know if any of them are certified.
https://www.displayport.org/product-category/cables-adaptors/

 

[joevt]

I am surprised that the CAC-1332 worked for 3 minutes with a USB-C hub like the JABRA (I should check if any of my USB-C hubs have the same behavior with the CAC-1332)

The JABRA uses USB 3.0 + two lanes of DisplayPort 1.2.

The CAC-1332 provides USB 2.0 + four lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 over USB-C. I don’t think it has the ability to negotiate a USB 3.x + two lane of DisplayPort connection even though there are USB-C chipsets that can do that (see the Sunix UPD2018 for example).

USB 3.0 usually requires more power than USB 2.0. USB-C usually requires more power than USB 3.0. Does the JABRA have its own power supply? The tech sheet says it comes with a 45W power supply so maybe power is not a problem.

Maybe the JABRA decides to stop working because it can’t negotiate a USB 3.0 + two lanes of DisplayPort link?

There exists USB-C docks that support USB 2.0 and four lanes of DisplayPort. CableMatters has examples of those (choose a dock that does not support USB 3.x speed). Maybe they will work better than the JABRA with the CAC-1332?

 

[joevt]

Yes, an MST Hub will not get you separate displays in macOS. You can use the MST Hub in Linux and Windows for multiple (non-mirrored) displays though.

For macOS, you need a Thunderbolt dock or hub or Thunderbolt to Dual DisplayPort adapter to connect two displays to a Thunderbolt port. A max of two displays can be connected per side of the MacBook Pro (each side has a Thunderbolt controller that supports two displays – either one per Thunderbolt port or two to a single Thunderbolt port using a Thunderbolt device).

An MST Hub can be used in macOS to convert two lanes of HBR3 with DSC to four lanes of HBR2 or HBR3 which may be useful if you use a USB-C (not Thunderbolt) dock that supports USB 3.x and has a DisplayPort output without its own MST Hub. This is because a USB-C dock that supports USB 3.x only reeives two lanes of DisplayPort for the DisplayPort output. Basically, the MST Hub helps because it can convert a fast & narrow DisplayPort connection to a slow & wide DisplayPort connection for displays that cannot accept the fast & narrow signal.

 

[joevt]

What version of macOS are you using? Which GPU do you have?

I tried Catalina and Big Sur with a 3 port DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub that should be similar to the CSV-7300. The MST Hub is connected to a W5700 that is connected to my Mac mini 2018. I connected 3 4K60 displays and they all worked as expected (they are all mirrored because macOS doesn’t support MST for multiple separate displays).

The AGDCDiagnose output says DSC is not enabled. I suppose this is expected since the displays are mirrored by the MST Hub and not by macOS (only one of the displays appears in macOS since macOS doesn’t support MST for multiple separate displays). Only one 4K60Hz stream is sent and the MST Hub transports that to all three displays.

I suppose one thing to try is to check the firmware of the CSV-7300. Send an e-mail to [email protected] to see if they have a firmware updater.

You’ll need Windows to upgrade the firmware of the CSV-7300.

There’s a firmware utility at https://kb.cablematters.com/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=147 which will tell you what your current firmware version is.

Maybe the issue is with your GPU – it is probably similar to the W5700 but not as powerful.

[joevt]

send an e-mail to [email protected]

 

[joevt]

Some updates from my last post.

CAC-1080 has a firmware update that allows HDR in macOS.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/thunderbolt-hub-with-ethernet-for-big-data-transfers-recommendation.2278473/

The Nvidia drivers in Linux have an option to change the chroma sub sampling. I guess you’ve already seen that with the 460.91.03 driver?

[joevt]

Both the StarTech and CalDigit are limited to DisplayPort 1.2 which can only do one 4K60 display, definitely not two 4K60 and one 2K144 display (unless you lower the refresh rate or resolution). You would need DisplayPort 1.4 and DSC to connect three 4K60 displays.

Linux and Windows supports multiple displays connected to a MST hub. macOS can only do mirroring between displays connected to an MST Hub. That, at least, should have worked.

The 16″ MBP has a 5300M or a 5500M GPU? Both support DisplayPort 1.4. At least one of them supports DSC (maybe both). I wonder if the Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt chips are getting a non-DisplayPort 1.2 signal? Your video shows video data that doesn’t look like DisplayPort 1.4 or DSC. Maybe the output from the AGDCDiagnose command would show something.

Try connecting the CSV-7300 directly to the MBP using a USB-C to DisplayPort 1.4 adapter such as the CAC-1567.

[joevt]

The examples of many displays connected to M1 Mac are using DisplayLink for all of the displays except the internal laptop display or HDMI display and one display connected to Thunderbolt.

DisplayLink just needs a USB connection to work (and driver). There are many docks and adapters that include DisplayLink. The CSV-1562 is one of them. 
Seems DisplayLink is now part of Synaptics now. They’re website has changed.
https://www.synaptics.com/products/displaylink-graphics/displaylink-products-list
Not all products that include DisplayLink are listed on the DisplayLink products page, including the CSV-1562 (actually, the DUSTIN PORT REPLICATOR TRIPLE 4K DOCK looks like it might be the same as the CSV-1562).

[joevt]

I am guessing the adapter is missing capacitors or something…

[joevt]

I think you might be right. The pixel problem may decrease over time.

The problem also exists in Windows 10 on a PC. I tested a Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 using Intel HD Graphics 530 from a Core i7-6700K. The adapter was the HDCP ON version. I connected it to the Thunderbolt port. Windows can use the HDCP ON version with my Apple Cinema 30″ Display and it will produce an image (macOS just displays black with the HDCP ON version – I need to use the HDCP OFF version for macOS).

[email protected] sent me a firmware update but it was the same version that the adapter already had. Applying the firmware update did not improve the situation.

I’m not sure if I’m imagining things, but does it seem that even if you see no flicker that the pixels are showing something like static, except the difference between light and dark pixels is only like 1%? Is it doing FRC (Frame rate control) with less than 8 bits?

In Windows 10, I use the Paint app to create the black rectangle. The position of the window and the size of the window affects the pixel static. I tried moving and sizing the Paint window to achieve pixel static maximum. Here’s an image with an entire column of static:

[img width='' height='']http://insights.club-3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/CAC-1510-static.jpg[/img]

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